TRANSCRIPT: Ep. 4: The Managers: Maddon and Counsell, the Shift and the DH, Robot Managers

Text Transcript of Ep. 4

00:00:00 – 00:05:02

Woah to. Welcome to the new best rivalry in baseball. Okay. Welcome back. Everybody. It’s episode for this week’s podcast ninety miles ninety miles from the Miller park parking lots all the way down to Wrigley Ville this week on the show. Ryan, I are gonna talk a little bit about the managers. It’s kind of that lull in spring training. If you will are you with us on the other side, right? Yeah. Oh, I’m here and welcome. And you know, looking forward to great cubs season here and the ad is that time spring training where we’re just continuing to see how things shake out everyone’s kind of getting knocked in the rust off. And and get seeing a seeing a lot of younger players at this point. Just the starters are just starting to trickle into the lineup for Milwaukee. The cubs have had them in a little bit longer. Upfront. Just two different ways to approach how you get ready for the season, madman counselor. Both very interesting dudes in how they approach. Things. That’s kind of what we wanted to touch on today. Just kind of lighter fun episode anything you wanted to touch them before we kind of dive into a little bit of their personal history. And how they got to where they are today. I don’t I don’t think. So I mean springs going good excited a lot of progress from cubs players that especially like you Darvish excited about that. But I think we could dive right into. Let’s let’s compare and contrast Madden and council. Sure, let’s do a little bit of that just a start with. I’m going to give a little bit of history. Probably on both guys here just start with Craig counsel. He actually grew up in whitefish bay, which is a little bit north of Milwaukee. Really? It’s part of the metro area his father worked for the club. So if you’re a cubs fan didn’t know he’s really a homegrown product to the Milwaukee area. His dad was the director of speakers bureau and director of community relations throughout the years in Milwaukee, which is very. Cool. So he’s grown up around the game. Basically been you know, in the dirt since the beginning, which is pretty neat. Born in south bend. Indiana drafted by the Rockies in the eleventh round nineteen Ninety-two played only three games. There got traded to the Marlins, and this is where he comes into his own a bit starts at second base right away. Young developing player, you still remember to a couple of things about Craig as apoe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Highlights. You kinda remember? Well, I mean, I definitely remember his interesting batting stance. And as that was one thing in particular. And you know, always actually did respect them a bit as a player as like. Oh, yeah. He’s good. He he he looks odd. He’s, you know, more of a wiry frame. But, but you know, when he you know, and he’d be playing against the cubs. I was like oh gotta watch out for him. Right. He’s kind of dangerous guy that you don’t expect to do anything. And then all of a sudden next thing, you know, he’s one of the main reasons you’re getting beats kind of a surprise. I remember reading, and this is totally an offshoot and Harvey peanuts little red book. It’s a Gulf book with a bunch of little anecdotes. There’s a golfer who’s going to turn -ment, and he’s playing against this fella. Any kind of sees them. You know on the TS before they start playing the tournament. And you know, they’re gonna go head to head and he refers to his coach and. I think it was Harvey peanut himself and said, you know, this guy’s got a really awkward looking swing. This is going to be, you know, nothing I have to worry about I should be able to pay this guy pretty easily. Well, he kind of forgot the other guy got there for a reason to right? So that whole business where the other guys get paid to play too. And it turns out this awkward swinging guy beat them and Harvey peanuts anecdote about it was, you know, just because somebody be scared more of the guy that doesn’t look like he’s got a natural fluid. Swing because he actually had to fight a lot more to get to where he’s at. So it’s kind of interesting you think about that awkward looking baseball swing and how much he had to work to get to where he was an eleventh round draft pick dozens expected to be somebody that ends up scoring a World Series game winning run on a walk off hit in the bottom of the eleventh. Right. And he did it for the Marlins in nineteen Ninety-seven. So that was really cool. So it’s interesting that in bring up that swing? Yeah. Those things that I always watch for the guys that are a little bit awkward and. A little bit unorthodox. And that’s kind of the fun with these two is Joe Madden’s clearly unorthodox we’re gonna get to that mo-. Well and more history on go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean on council and kind of I mean, that’s one of the beauties of baseball. I think is is the you can take an unorthodox approach or or not be what you would expect.

00:05:02 – 00:10:00

There’s no, you know, hard and fast rule of certain, you know, type of look or height or build or anything that is going to dictate success in the major leagues, it’s you know, there’s such variety. So I think Craig counsels is one of those examples as a player for sure. Absolutely, absolutely. That grittiness helped get him quite a long ways. Like, I said Edgar Renteria hit a walk off single in the bottom of the eleventh inning to win game seven of the World Series. And it was Craig councils feat that stamped on the plate. Very cool. So he’s a guy that’s been in the mix before Madden certainly has as a manager. You get the two thousand and one he actually won the National League championship series MVP. So that awkward skinny kid from whitefish bay. Wisconsin got to win a national championship MVP. He was on base again. When Luiz Gonzalez drove in the game winner that was the two thousand and one Diamondbacks that everyone remembers for a shilling and Randy Johnson. So he’s been on some pretty amazing squads. He’s been around some pretty amazing players and PF, and that you know in a contrast. I mean council does have that playing history Madden does. But it’s it’s significantly Lassie. He played. He was he signed with the angels in nineteen seventy five, but he never advanced beyond single-a. But he was a catcher, you know. And catchers are always the ones involved every play you bet thinkers. Yeah. So he, but yeah, he that was what the angels. And he he was with the angels for decades. He was in their organization. Yes. Thirty one years thirty years. Yeah. Which pretty incredible. So, you know, he progresses way through and and yeah, I mean, he’s he he worked. He’s got a long long history of experience as a coach and manager. And I think that you know, he’s he’s evolved. I mean, he he has a very unique instincts that I think are result of of many many years of experience as as a coach manager, and he he’s not afraid to go with his instincts at times. But he’s interesting. I mean, and as we get into I guess, they’re managing styles little bit. I mean, he he. He doesn’t brace. You know, his field has got feeling an instincts. But he also is certainly, you know, along with council one of one of the managers at does like looking at you know, he will look at advanced statistics and matchups and all kinds of things like that. So he’s kind of an interesting hybrid of of kind of new and old that that I is pretty interesting. He reminds. Yeah. He reminds me a lot of a very skilled poker player poker players. And I I’m a fan of the game big time. And I know you play a little bit yourself. You really have to know a lot of the math. You have to know a lot of the science behind. Why somebody would do X Y Z and teaches you how to read someone’s hand, and what’s coming next, and then your gut because you’ve experienced so much in his case thirty one years with the angels. Plus that time and Tampa Bay now time in Chicago, his gut is going to be as good as the an. Politic’s? And when you combine the two you get a pretty dang strong head for the game, and what’s happening in front of you. And I one of my favorite things about him is he’s not afraid to do something off the wall. I remember specifically brewers cubs game last year. Gosh was at the sixth or seventh inning. He started spinning pitchers. He had a pitcher in left field in a pitcher on the mound. Yeah. The same time. So you could alternate. He could go lefty righty lefty. Yes. I had never seen that done. You told me done that before is that true. You know, I’m not actually completely. Sure. I that was the first I really heard about him doing that. I you put a pitcher in left field while you’ve got another guy in the mo-. I mean, he he was gambling. But that was also something that will talk about two plays with the shift a little bit. Because if I remember eight the hitter at the plate was a left handed hitter that just did not go the other way, right at all. Yeah. Yeah. The pitcher and left. It was it was you know, good. I mean, it wasn’t just the pitching match of. But he was conscious of the of you know, putting that pitcher in left field and making sure that the ball wasn’t was unlikely to be hit to him too. So. Actually, quite a really unique smart move.

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I mean, there’s only very specific situations where you could do something like that. But, but yeah, that’s you know, no understanding the rules of the game. And you got to work within that framework. But he isn’t afraid to you know, do do things like that. And that’s that again is a combination. I think of you know, outside the box thinking, but also still working with the numbers, you know, still working with, you know, he calls them the nerds, you know, with all the sabermetrics and all the numbers he relies on them heavily. Absolutely, absolutely. That brings us a little bit back into council to their the brewers themselves. They hired David Stearns. If you years back as their general manager, one of the things he brought over from the Houston Astros was heavy sabermetrics and analytics kind of analysis in fact the Astros. I think for the last three years if I’m not mistaken led the. League in shifting the walkie finished at Milwaukee finished eighth shifts last year the cubs. Interestingly enough, we’re twenty eighth so nearly dead last in entire MLB. It shows you that both of these guys have a different kind of head for the game. But they don’t necessarily use the same method to get to the end points. Just the finish up on counsel’s history briefly. He did come over to the brewers as part of an NCO or I’m Sarah an off season Richie sex in trade if anybody remembers him that was pretty funny. The brewers basically took a ton of stuff from the Diamondbacks in that. That’s how he became part of the Bruce organization again. So it came full circle from as a kid in two thousand twelve ended up retiring as a player he took a front office role. So he’s worked next, Doug. Melvin the previous general manager as an assistant GM, and then he’s worked very closely with David Stearns as well. He ended up taking over on may fourth of twenty fifteen as the manager replacing Ron Reynecke if I’m not mistaken Madden also came over in twenty fifth. Eighteen is that correct? Yes. That was his first year. Yeah. So they’ve got some time line things that are very interesting about them everything about the brewers and cubs over the last several years. This just some really cool lines that are all kind of presenting themselves together. It’s very very fun. Yeah. Yeah. He’s you know, Joe Madden will go down in history. As of course, with the cubs given that he’s the one that got them out of their championship losing streak there. So and he’s he’s done incredibly well managing the cubs. You know, well over five hundred winning percentage, you know. I mean two thousand seventeen was. In the four years. He’s managed cubs. Two thousand seventeen he they won the least amount of games, and they still won ninety two games. But starting from two thousand fifteen ninety seven hundred and three ninety two and ninety five all under Madden. That’s that’s pretty good. That is pretty good. I think it was a twenty four win increase over Renteria. Who’s the guy he had replaced? There was a little controversy. Do you? Remember that back in twenty fifteen when he took over for Inzerillo Renteria had been promised the role for twenty fifteen got fired. The raise actually filed tampering charters claiming Joe opco because he knew the cubs would be coming and knocking on the door. MB MLB cleared him of all that. So there’s no no evidence that that actually took place. It’s just kind of interesting and rent a Rio is very upset. He had been promised the managerial role for fifteen ended up going to the white socks. Go figure cross town, right, right? Yeah. Yeah. A clear twenty four game win increase over renter is previous season. So it showed a one thing. The cubs talent was starting to come together. But be I think a lot of it had to do with Joe. And how he manages. Yeah. Yeah. I think I, you know. Yeah. It is a combination of the two certainly, you know, there’s some younger players. I really kinda started to come through and fifteen and. Yeah that was as an exciting season. It really was like okay now, we’re gonna see something. But obviously two thousand sixteen everything aligned that year, and yeah. And that’s you know, no matter what happens. I mean. It’s interesting to see how things go this year Madden. His contract is up. That’s right. So this is kind of it. And and that lease at this point. There has been talk of extension. So I kind of have a feeling it’s going to kinda. Penned how this season goes he’s not a cheap manager. So there’s that. But then again, you know, five six million a year. I don’t know obviously, it’s been worth it.

00:15:04 – 00:20:00

I think he’s I would say if he still wants to keep going, and he’s managing at that level. I don’t see is there really a guy that can make them better out there. I don’t know. It’s that’s up to THEO, I suppose, and yeah, it’s not like it’s not like the kkob’s. Don’t have a large payroll. The do they do have big TV contract coming through. They can afford a six million dollar manager. So if if there’s something going on there, it’s a I don’t think it’s going to be money related personally. Right, right. Yeah. It’s it’s it’s the only other thing would be is if they’re grooming, you know, someone else, you know, possibly to come in. I mean, there is that possibility. I don’t know I’ve heard. Lots of different rumors though. So it’s hard to say I mean, I just heard the other day about Joe Girardi being rumored a little bit. Of course, he has a history as a cubs player when I remember watching them, you know, in the nineties and stuff. Yeah. And he’s obviously, you know over ten years younger than Madden. So there’s a youth movement there but Girardi got replaced by a what a like a who did trying to remember another guy that was ten years younger than Girardi somebody in their fifties. As far as some of the trends going baseball is now considered kind of old the beginning a managerial job not all the way across the board. But seventeen and twenty seventeen four out of the six managers hired in the off season. We’re in their forties forty four under right? Right. Well, but I, you know, I think Madden is a little bit of an exception of that. Because you know, despite being slightly older. He’s he’s a really youthful character. He’s you know, and I guess. Touching again on the you know, some of the quirks there. I mean, he does the, you know, the players dressing up, you know, on certain road trips doing some odd, you know, kind of out of the box things to inspire. He’s he’s kind of hands off. I I was reading you know, there’s stuff in op season he talked about reading reading a book managing millennials book or something like that. So he’s he’s always learning and trying new things I mean, so he in a way he’s I mean, I’d say he probably could be in a way more youthful manager than even some young managers younger than him. And that’s that’s part of his thing. He seems like that type of person that could run a an entire. He seems like a person that could be a CEO and actually relate all the way down to the bottom level person there. He’s somebody that I’ve actually always. Always enjoyed watching from afar, I’ve got a lot of respect for Joe Madden. I think he doesn’t. I think it does a hell of a job. And I thought it started back when I started watching them with the Devil Rays, and yeah, yes, he’s been always one of my more and one of my favorite guys to watch. Just because of the fact that he will do something different. He’s not afraid to and the more. I read about them the more. I like them. Of course, the last few years have been tougher with them being the manager. It’s right. You know, it’s a little harder to like him. But I don’t hate them. Like, I hated LaRussa. So that. Yeah. That’s true. Well, no, I really enjoy listening new talk up Madden. So keep going. It’s good. Yeah. Whatever. Yeah. He does have you know, he’s got what thirteen core principles of managing. I think those are interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know. Little read through if you have time to catch it’s personal connections. And and you know, his whole concept of respect ninety. I think is you know, is interesting always planning Machado might not be able to play there. Well that was. Yeah. I mean, no. And that was kind of a rumor floating around about oh, what have Machado goes? I’m like that’s not gonna he’s not a real good fit for respect. Right. Basically respect ninety refers to the distance between the basis ninety feet run. It hard all the way out. Everybody’s expected to expectation is what it is like anything else. So yeah. Manny dragging his feet across tastes Aguilera’s ankle or stopping at seventy two. I don’t think it would have been a good fit. I good for the Padres. Good luck. Yeah. Yeah. You’ll be a good fit down there. That’s fine. But I always thought about that. When some cubs fans, we’re hoping to get much out on like a or does he fit and be do you really want to so? Yeah. When you get into his core principles. He’s a really I think he’s a I think he’s a heck of a coach. And I I like Joe Madden. I just wish coach somewhere else. That’s. Yeah. I know I was pretty excited when he came. I’m like, oh, this is this will be good and.

00:20:01 – 00:25:07

Yeah. And and obviously it it has been so yes this year will be. I don’t know. It’s it’s I mean, he’s he’s going to hold a place in cubs history. So regardless of what happens, I guess he’s made his Mark. He’s Mark on baseball history period. Oh, yeah. Very very, very cool. And he’s been an unusual character. I think he has shaped some of the future hires of the league to which is now really in the past. But I think he changed a lot of the ways people looked at managing in general. I love the fact that Tampa Bay is always on the cutting edge of that kind of stuff the openers you had Joe Madden come in over a decade ago. Now is there had or as their manager? They’ve always had to be on the cutting edge down in Tampa. Right. And a you know like it likens itself bit to Milwaukee for me. Just because it’s a smaller market. You have to do certain things a little differently just to wrap up council. You did touch on. Joe Madden’s record council bursted over the five hundred Mark as a manager to three sixteen and three eight now after last season when he got brought in. Behind Reynecke, basically to replace him. You know, he went from assistant assistant to the general manager to the manager. It was interesting because they were still in the middle of a rebuild and they’ve really as a team perform that rebuild. And I think a lot of it has to do with two things the way they use the analytics, and you know, the, heart and soul that has Craig counsel. He is a Milwaukee born and bred guy. It’s awesome fun to watch these two managers. And I think I think you have a lot of respect for counsel as a manager to even though I’m no I do poetic here. But well, no, I mean, like exactly like you said that they exceeded expectations in in regards to the rebuild. And I think that says a lot with about council and his ability to relate to the younger players and everything and just his his style. I think Madden did the same exact thing in two thousand fifteen cubs weren’t necessarily expected to make the playoffs that year, but they did. So very very similar just as few years difference. If we were gonna look at the same storyline that happened then for the cubs, then I guess you would say the brewer should win the World Series this year. But I’m certainly that’s. Yeah. I I think they should have done it last year that. Well, even in twenty fifteen is optimistic as I was I knew they were they were exceeding. And you know, which made me really excited for sixteen. And and and that worked out great. So absolutely, absolutely. Well, I think we’ll move on from this portion a little bit. We want to get to the tweet of the week. We just kind of had a random one pop-up we’ve been talking about predictions KOTA, you know, all of that kind of stuff fan graphs and what they are predicting for the National League central. Well, we had a tweet come out from the USA today MLB with their predictions. Right. So this is kind of one. Yeah. They really toed. The line on this. One are twenty nineteen win totals are out. Now that Bryce Harper’s found a home expect total chaos. The season of three way tie in the NL central to way tie top the NFL east and all five teams landing on the same record, creating dizzy Seta tiebreakers really USA today. Well, it’s a good way to get some attention. I guess, but I, you know, I I actually think these are almost more realistic predictions in the coda or refs. Yeah. I mean, and it’s yeah. I mean cubs. Cardinals brewers. They got them all eighty nine seventy three with Pittsburgh, seventy six eighty six Cincinnati, seventy five eighty seven so. Yeah. I mean, we’ve been saying it all along. I mean the cubs. Cardinals brewers are really going to be the ones battling it out. You know? And I think it’s it’s hard to say where they’re gonna land. So I think if you wanna play it safe just put them all at a tie. That’s. Yeah. And then having the nets Braves tie at eighty nine wins as well. With Philly falling one win short. It’s. Yeah. Well, it goes back to what we’ve been saying. It’s going to be awfully difficult to get a second wildcard out of this division. It may be difficult to get a wild card out of this division period. I honestly think the way these numbers, look, they may be undershooting. Pittsburgh a hair at seventy six wins. Maybe even Cincinnati. I would expect things like have been happening. The last couple years pitiless seems to get out of the gate good. And then kind of tail off I. I mean, I’d give the just Cincinnati. You would on the box. I would on the bottom side just barely. I mean, it’s it’s a I don’t think those two will be quite in the mix with the cubs cardinals and Burs.

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But that’s you know, it’s gonna be matchups within the division. That’s you know, because you can. You know, the red sued could you know, walk into Saint Louis and sweep the cardinals. And that’s gonna throw everything off so knows well, the cool part about what Cincinnati’s done. And I didn’t mean to go into this this segment, but that’s okay. Yeah. They’re they’re doing a lot of one year deals with people. And what that means is if they do implode, they’re going to turn those one year guys into a lot of good prospects. And they’ve got a pretty solid foundation already. So to double down if you totally bomb in the first half, which is not impossible. This is going to be a really tough division. If you take a beating on the front half, you can turn guys like Matt Kemp. Yes, he’ll into some prospects that are near or already MLB ready close to it. And really have a solid foundation for the next several years. So I wouldn’t be surprised to see something like that happen to either Cincinnati or Pittsburgh God forbid, Milwaukee could end up in that spot. There are a few one year deal guys. I don’t expect Milwaukee to. A big digger. Although the first month of the schedule is going to be brutal. But yeah, fun. That’s it will be fun. Yeah. USA today. Release stepped out and you know, in one way, it is kind of a crazy prediction you’re predicting five teams tie at eighty nine wins. That’s fun. But it also seems like they just couldn’t decide on who was better. Well, well, and I mean we had some ties last year. So it’s it’s not out of the question. I mean, it does happen as so I, you know, but yeah, I do think it it’s almost toss up up there between those three. I mean, obviously, I think the cubs will put out in the end. But yeah, no, we’ll see. It was pretty much how it’s going to be the Bruce anyway. We’ll do our season predictions here in a couple of weeks. I think to kind of kind of prep that up, and yeah, we’ll push big up that way and try and have some fun with that the only other thing getting I think that’s really about it for tweeted Luik. Yeah. The thing we wanted to talk about is how these managers getting back to them. Their skill sets. And using the double switch things like that. Both of these guys are very very ardent users of that. Now, you have to be a little bit in the National League. The thing I like about Milwaukee’s club is they are set up really well for the double switch. What I mean by that is in the back end with that kind of bullpen that Milwaukee has what gets overlooked from the previous year. Everybody talked about how weak the starting pitching was. Or there wasn’t enough of it. And a lot of brew fans. Don’t always agree with me that Craig councils great manager because he does get to the bullpen too quickly for some of their flavors. I think it’s smart. And here’s why you’re getting an extra at bat, and these nationally games from somebody off your bench that wasn’t gonna see the game anyway, and you’re getting them in the fifth inning a lot of times. So you’re getting a better at bat than a lot of other teams are trying to get and you’re getting into the strength of your team that much faster. I think that’s. Part of the reason they won ninety six games is they were willing to change the metric on how the us their squad. So the double switch happens. Sometimes a guy only goes for innings instead of five five instead of six, but that gets them an extra bat from a quality guy like Fame’s off the bench. This bench is built for the double switch there is versus Tilleke up and down at a love the way it gets used on the cub side how has Madden get into that. Does he do a fair amount? Or he does he does a fair amount of double switches for sure he he does a lot of things there. And it’s actually interesting given the his American League background. Actually, how well he’s just been able to transition rate in and and do some, you know, unique things it doesn’t seem. I mean, it feels like he’s been managing National League. All along the way, he deals handles, double switches. So I mean, he certainly would have no issue if there was a D H in the NFL. I mean, that’s I don’t I mean it actually most manages when have an issue. But I think he’s he’s. Of simplifies things, I guess, but but yeah, he’s he’s I think he’s done well with that. I mean, really it’s just a it’s kind of short term strategy for the lineup essentially you talking which. Yeah. Yeah. Just moving the just move the pitcher’s spot. Skipping the pitcher spot partially. You know, what I mean like rolling the order over getting, you know, and and it’s just something you gotta do in the in the National League generally pitchers.

00:30:05 – 00:35:05

Another thing. I think about that. Yeah. Well, another thing that’s important about that too. Is Milwaukee often had a lead when this was happening. And what you did. Then is you also could vote somebody that was not a strong defensively for better defensive player. So only getting fat for your pitcher. That is you know, you’re going from guy that hits one ten to guy that hits maybe two thirty and it doesn’t sound like that big of an upgrade. But then you upgrade your defense on the backside yellow of a sudden that all starts to roll through. Which is why I’m I’m such a bigger fan of the National League game than I am the American League game the American League game to me. You set the card, and you kind of sit and wait and sit and wait and sit and wait, right. And there really isn’t a lot of reason to pull somebody out of a game for there’s no reason to pinch half the time. You have your best lineup in already you start playing match ball. But it doesn’t start until the seventh inning. I think you know, we didn’t get into the rules on the D H portion very much or the pitch clock for that matter. But personally, I like the way it is if you want I what I like is fans on both sides debate it, and it goes back and forth. And it happens every year these American League fans, I’d rather watch David Ortiz hit than some pitcher. We’ll remember David Ortiz’s a hall of Famer. And there’s probably like one guy in the entire league. That is the quality of him as a Detroit now. So let’s let’s let’s not pretend that we don’t have to twenty hitters the aging occasionally. Okay. And the other side of it. Right, right. It’s just such a more. Interesting more interesting game. And I yeah, I don’t care. It is to me. Now, the good word is both sides get what they want is that so bad. I kind of. I mean, some people argue that it’s a little odd that you got two different leagues with different sets of rules. How can you can kind of compare the teams and such? But I, you know, I guess what’s kind of fun is with interleague. And I I’ve always thought it was kind of fun to be able to see both. And and when the cubs play in American League ballparks during interleague always kind of fun to see how those those lay out, obviously, it actually lead to some pretty cool stuff with Kyle store in the World Series against Cleveland. He had an opportunity to get some bats, you know, after basically being out the entire season with a knee injury. And yet he was still, you know, he recovered enough rehabbed enough by the World Series to be able to come in and be D H when they’re playing in Cleveland. So that was pretty cool. Now, would you then want the D H? Altogether or not in the National League. Because now both Milwaukee in Chicago in my opinion are set up just fine. If they changed the rule today to go to the h you know across the yeah. Both clubs would be fine. I just don’t think the game would benefit personally. I don’t. I don’t think enjoyed as much. Yeah. I I agree. I mean, you know, I actually I was looking. I think it’s it’s the double switch ads adds another layer of strategy that that makes it fun. I mean, I think part of of watching a baseball game as seeing the the chess game unfold, and you take kind of that piece of the strategy away in my opinion. It’s a little slightly less. Interesting. I mean, it can be different ways. But, but it’s you know in the pinch hitters. I, you know, it’s just you know, pinch-hitter coming in and getting a clutch hit is pretty exciting. There’s something about, you know, something about that. And certainly, you know, I was looking actually at managerial tendencies on baseball reference for for madman. It’s interesting seeing his pinch hitters per game. Average pitch pinch hitters per game statistics, you know from. You know with Tampa Bay and then compared to Chicago. And I mean, it’s a significant difference. Over one game. I would expect. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s it’s under one a game for all all his years. In fact, as low as even point five pinch hitters game one every couple years going that there is at least an increase of one a game. I would think. Yeah. Basically about one a game two thousand fifty beginning in two thousand fifteen one point seven one point four one point six one point seven. So and that that also sets it up to the argument that the National League game gets too long. The last time I checked every time I watch the Yankees and Red Sox takes fourteen hours story. Well, you got the double switch got the pitcher changes. I mean, we already talked about and a different episode about. I mean. Along commercial break when they switch pitchers and then having a warm up off the mound a bunch.

00:35:05 – 00:40:02

We are attacked about that. But yes, we covered a lot of that stuff. I don’t think it adds much time to the game at all to go into that to be perfectly honest. So any even if it does I don’t care. I like that game better like watching that game considerably more the last thing to touch on D H, if it goes away if it goes to that level. It’s never coming back. Once they put h into the National League, it’s basically dead forever and all competitive baseball. It’s going to be part of the game period. And I would just be said to see it go at a historical level at an enjoyment level to lose that part of the game altogether. There’s so many moments. I remember where you know, Brandon Woodruff Clayton Kershaw on the playoffs lefty on lefty major a relief pitcher taking Kershaw out in a national. Championship series game that goes away on the other hand Jimmy Nelson. Sliding back into first base. Probably doesn’t have an right, right. Oh, I totally for those of you. That are mad at me and saying I don’t see this. You know, the other side of it. I do I. Yeah. I just I just would be sad to see it go. Yeah. Well, I mean, I guess we’ll we’ll see what happens there. But. Yeah. So I think that’s move onto the seventh inning. Yeah. You’ve got something a little more wild for us this week. Yeah. Ending. I. What’s the concept? Keep in keeping with the theme of of managers. We had a conversation of few months ago. I brought up abroad up a little something about you know, we always talk about how the game is changing and how it evolves and everything and I brought up the idea that maybe at one day in the future. We may actually see. A I managing a baseball team. And you laughed at me. And I said, yeah. Well, you’re laughing now. But just I I’d have to say, you know, let’s just wait and see. Because now I I would lean towards thinking it’ll be a smaller market team one. That’s really really embraces the sabermetrics. And and all that. And you know, I know people are probably, you know, I, you know, I do a little computer programming on the side. I’m pretty into up on on AI stuff. I mean, we’re reproach ING, you know, the point where he I is is going to equal and then surpass, you know, the human brain. And so I mean as far as managing a team. I mean, there’s even there’s even a out there that that can interact with people and and detect emotions that people are feeling with facial recognition. Mission and in all kinds of things like that. So you know, it might be a little bit yet. But you know, the power in the numbers sabermetrics that could be easily done in in split seconds. You know, mid game as far as determining those things. But also, I think there could be a level of intelligence emotional intelligence that AI could have that could interact with the players now how the players interact back, but it will be interesting. But but would be unique is that, you know, nothing will would phase that type of a manager, you know, big egos or anything like that aren’t gonna phase a computer, you know, you afraid that you’re gonna lose your team having something like that going on the guys are going to. I mean, really there’s a human element here that gave no word it would take a big level of trust. I think there would you know, but this. Was the same thing. I mean, look at Oakland, you know, in when they started embracing the numbers, you know, there was a lot of you know, you’ve seen the movie on ball right now. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it would be something similar to that just a whole ‘nother level. Well, you’re talking you’re talking about having a physical machine down there. Reading the emotions of your pitcher and looking out to pull it would have to be human like, you know, human ex- ex- machen, you know, have have a face and everything you know, it can’t it wouldn’t be just like a chunk of metal sitting on the bench. It would be probably more robotics involved as to make it somewhat more personable. But you know, we’re just we’re just. Is the the sizing, but it would I think it cheaper for small market team, essentially cheaper.

00:40:02 – 00:45:02

Maybe. It could be really expensive for small America team if they screw it up. And they lose lose the players. That’s the other side of it. I. Well, I I’m all about embracing. The metrics and the numbers and getting all of that rate, the shift a lot of those types of things make a lot of sense for the game as it has evolved. I don’t think anybody in the next twenty years is going to be ready for a robot manager. Oh, it’ll be it’ll be less than twenty years. Are you even kidding me? What I can see is really implementing even more of the computer element of it. And it can also see baseball seeing this coming and getting in the way and removing certain elements of intelligence from the dugout including computers and certain ways to do things where you only walk. I can see them going the other way completely. Well, I mean, you get it from the dugout, but I think that’s you know, people that don’t don’t understand AI or follow it as closely. I think they think that the computers can only do the numbers side. And there’s the you lose the human aspect, but you know, there I think get to a level where it’s so sophisticated and personable that it would be difficult to tell the difference and that really as long as the players trust that and and go with it. They will not even realize after awhile that they’re interacting with the computer. But. You know, that technology has has a few years ago. But I undertand under ten years that technology will be there. Whether that a team in braces as outside the boxes that I don’t know. But this is technology would be there, and it, and it wouldn’t be this cold in human thing. It would be very unless you already know it would be difficult to differentiate that you’re interacting with the computer person. Robot managers? That’s the seventh inning this week. Managers. Yes. Yeah. I robot managers it’s comment. To a minor league team near you. I would think maybe maybe triple eight team will try it out. Oh, yeah. Well, you know, I can see a class eight team using their mascot as the guy that actually walks out there. But the computer running the show now known retaining. No researching on on whether this would affect any kind of union type situations. I don’t know, you know, there’s. So we’re just throwing throwing us out there. Just as a. We seventh-inning we’ll talk about a lot of different things and probably usually historical aspects. But what’s no while we’ll jump into the future, and and get a little Seifi. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And this, and there’s there’s a lot of ways that the artificial intelligence is already part of it. It’s not interpreting it live yet. And I think right. It’s just something that that will come down the road robot manager. I I don’t think so. Winning on jeopardy that was that was live in the moment. A I at work. So I you know, the. Yeah, it’s yeah. But behind the scenes, of course, crunching all kinds of crazy numbers and using a I to, you know, figure out sayings. I mean, that’s a lot of the sabermetrics all that is coming out of that kind of stuff, you know, the shift and all kinds of things. So I mean, a lot of managed Verity embracing I, you know, it just crossed my mind sake. Well, you know, bypass the middleman, I still I still like idea of class squad using their mascot and the computer on the show. I think that would be Larrea that’d be the mascot coming out holding his nose when a pincher just doesn’t have. It says right yanking. Yeah. You gotta go. You know, there’s the human element of it for you. That’d be great. That’s a good good collaborative. I think that would be the way to do it. Now, you’re talking. About having some fun. But anyway, let’s move on. Speaking of fun. You’ve got a an enjoyable prediction moment for this week for us. What are you thinking? Yeah. Well, it’s, you know, trying to think of things, you know, it’s it’s I guess in a sense. It’s more of a kind of inconsequential prediction. Okay. But in that sense. It’s not a very serious one. And I think that’s still fits what we’re talking about. I was looking at some things, and I was trying to determine what would be an interesting interesting one. I let me see as I get this here.

00:45:02 – 00:50:02

So. I was looking at the all star game and mind, you know, oh, maybe predicting the national legal in also yet that’s kind of boring. So I, you know, we’re going to get a little bit of history here some of which you might not necessarily know, but I was looking at National League or all-star game MVP’s. So they started that nineteen sixty two and I was looking and the cubs have had one player win. Bill. Mad lock in nineteen seventy five that. Yeah. I I actually didn’t either. I’m not up on my all-star game. MVP’s not something I really pay attention to since it’s fairly inconsequential. The brewers have one in their in their history two thousand eleven prince fielder. Yes, I do recall. All that. Now that you mention it. But I had. Yeah, we forgot it. Yeah. Prince prince at a couple of hits that game as recall and drove in. Oh, gosh. I don’t even know you probably have the history pulled up. But yeah, I remember him having a pretty successful. When that was the two thousand eleven season you said so that would have been the year. Yeah. They lost the Saint Louis in the nationally championship series. But we’re not gonna talk about that part. So anyway. Yeah. So anyways, I thought that was interesting. You know, there’s. So we’re going with your prediction here. So I’m going to just my prediction is that the MVP for the all star game will be a player from the cubs. Or brewers? Just. Oh, yes. Well, okay. Yeah. That’s a long shot too near. Well, it is. I mean, really you’re talking about oh, it’s a super random maybe three oh to twenty-six guys. And then maybe one or two or starters. Oh, three. Oh, I don’t know. How many cubs? They make the roster. More than I mean, it’s possible. But remember, they take what twenty six guys. How many do they take twenty nine? It’s a weird number for the all star game. I don’t remember. Yeah. To expect more than three is to be expecting an awful lot. And it’s not impossible. Don’t get me wrong. And you certainly have the voting market for it Chicago voters when they when they get out the, you know, they vote for both the living and the dead from what I understand in Chicago. Yeah. Well, you know. You know, they. Yeah. I mean, and that’s the thing. I mean, partially popularity concert contests in that sense. But, but you know, it is also it’s also also performance, you know, in two thousand sixteen problem. He’s sixteen go just speaking of number of players, you know, in two thousand sixteen the cubs were the second team ever to have its entire infield start and all star game. And none of them on the MVP. No. I know. Well, that’s that’s where the prediction gets their side of the coin. Assume that you have to assume the National League wins on top of all of this because they don’t give the right to the losing team unless something crazy happens. Right. Like you’re talking about one out of fifty some guys. That’s if you get that you get credit for to correct predictions. Okay. Okay. Okay. You get credit to. I. A bonus win a little padding to the stat if I get this. Yeah, it’s it’s a crazy, man. It’s only happened once in all star game history. That comes player got got an MVP. So it’s already pretty crazy. But. With that. That’s because that is a true longshot there. Now. Do it. But I since I have this here. Two players have won the award for game in which their league lost. So it has had twice Brooks Robinson in nineteen sixty six and Carl Yastrzemski in nineteen seventy sure sure. And. Yeah, it’s totally possible. If somebody hits a pair of dinger’s and the other team comes back late. They’ll still usually try and give it to the winning team. Which is what that history. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That’s an interesting. We’ll have to watch for that. That’ll give us another reason to watch for the all star voting and things like that coming up in the middle. Yeah. Yeah. Moving onto my slightly more serious prediction this week. We’ve been talking a lot about managers, which is fun. It’s a good theme for an episode, especially this time of year. You know, really talk about our two guys one thing that has happened.

00:50:02 – 00:55:04

And we meant I mentioned it early in the the brewers were eighth overall in shifting last year. The cubs were twenty eighth. I’m looking. At what Milwaukee’s done in the off season. And I think we’re gonna see it right away month of April. I want this to be the month of April prediction, the brewers will be in the top three for the month of April in shifting couple of major reasons for it. It’s I mean, I don’t think this is far fetched to go from eighth to third though. Does mean they’re going to have to move up passing teams. And I think honestly, this is going to be more of a trend in baseball than it has been. So maybe tougher than people think to to move up on this this. Yeah, I think it’s interesting. And that’s an interesting prediction. I I’ll accept that as an acceptable prediction to make. I it’s somewhat safe. But also at the same time, I I’m actually not a huge fan of the shift. Sure. I think you know, what what the shift is going to do. And I and I think it might be good for baseball general is it’s really gonna force hitters to even to have to just even more than they already have too. So that that’s fun. It’s as I love watching hitters beat the shift that is one of the fun of sayings, and that’s not it’s not easy. If you have tendencies as a hitter to be able to to adjust and become less predictable. That’s that’s very complicated. So seeing hitter it is you know, it’s just gonna make the hitters better. So I don’t know to continue to see that trend. You know will be interesting. But I think I think as years go on there’s going to be more and more adjustments by hitters, and you know, we’ll see I, you know, my favorite is is. When they just Bont to beat the shift. That’s that’s always fun. That’s fun to watch. Okay. Well, you know, it’s like people get upset about Mike. Well, if you’re shifting, and that’s the way to beat the shift. What do you mean that’s still within the realms realm of the rules? And it’s like, you know, oh, I think there’s an emphasis on the new way to swing and things like that and grooving swing that has been developed over the last twenty years, and that new swing doesn’t always work super well to go the other way. Oh, yeah. You gotta have you gotta have like a second type swing. You. Gotta have a different be able to change approaches of dental Rizzo. Does that you know, he gets couple strikes on ’em. He chokes up on the bat, you know. And and shortens is swing a little bit. I do that kind of stuff it forces an old school approach, which is something. I like about the the shift. Yes, the new it’s a new thing. That’s forcing old school. Cool hitting in a way in a way. Yeah. What I would like to say is to the Astros for the last three years have been tops and shifting percentage. This shifted thirty seven point three percent of the time. Okay. So that’s a little over third of the time. They’re shifting. That’s a lot that it is a lot. And however the rays were next and they were only at thirty percent. And then you get down to the bottom of the league. The angels were shifting three point four percent. If you get down to twentieth. The Mets only at thirteen point eight it’s not like the shift is over running baseball. The money thing is the teams that tend to be towards the top. You know there half, great and half. Not so much, right? The Astros are tops. The Yankees are up there. At number four the rays were number two last year. They had to do something. I mean, they got a terrible payroll. The eighth, but then the Orioles were awful, and they were seventh in the shift. So it’s not a guarantee that anybody’s winning. And really most teams. It’s it’s averaging less than a quarter of the time. It’s not as prevalent as everybody says it is and Franklin a hole in your swing. You should be punished. I’m sorry. Yeah. Exactly. Well, and yeah. And that I think it makes sense. I mean, it certainly. Yeah. It’s not like over running. It’s just happening way way way way more than it used to like when I was in the ninety eighties nineties watching baseball never ever. Now and everyone played their position and played the same position for for the game. You know every game they played in. That’s that’s the position, you know. But we yeah. We’ve talked about that. So shift is it’s unique thing I like that prediction. Let’s. You know, you found a way to track that, right? You found someone I’m working on it. But yeah, yes, I’ll work on tracking it that’s the tricky part. But. I know somebody is out there tracking it, that’s yeah. We’ll we’ll find. We’ll find somewhere where we can get that make sure we can say month April.

00:55:04 – 01:00:04

So will sure one thing that I thought was interesting when I was researching that prediction a little bit. This goes back to twenty eighteen an article by Mike Petri ELO of believe, it’s MLB dot com. Fun guy to follow a good follow on Twitter. Oh, speaking of following on Twitter. You can follow me at brew crew winning at Bruecker winning on Twitter. I know we’ve had more and more interaction as these podcasts have gone on. It’s awesome. Keep it coming at this. At that time at at wraps his cubs. Win on Twitter at reps. Cubs win. Go there pylon. Give him a bunch of crap about crab. Yeah. Yeah. As of it looks like as of March eighteenth. So just the first month. Oh, no. I’m sorry. May sixteenth of last year. No, no hitter getting shifted on more than Chris Bryan was last year. So. Yeah. Interesting tidbit, obviously, he was having some problems with injuries. Yes. Bryant a lot. But in they might preacher Illo does point out that he had pointed that out two years prior that he was putting the ball on the ground all the time to the left side. He was just really surprised that it took two years for baseball in general come around and just start shifting them. So you’ve got anything about that. That’s interesting. Well, Bryan, Kris Bryant is. He’s a very sophisticated hitter. He’s very very much aware of that. And and he is smart enough of a history of a hitter that he he can he makes adjustments. He’s always just subtly tweaking things he’s not just going to can unlock into one tendency and then get burned by it. So, you know, I it will be interesting. I’m gonna pay especially close. Attention to Kris Bryant the season, obviously, I do anyways. But I mean, you know, but especially in regards to the shift and where he’s putting all and we’ll take a look at some spray charts as the season progresses, and and we’ll see. But I know he’s made more just once again. I mean, he’s going to become an out as a another different hitter. You know, if you look at his numbers, he’s sees each year. He does different things last year. It was not a typical year. So okay. Well, that’s what he does go back in history twenty sixteen and twenty seventeen as well. So maybe, but he’s article if you haven’t had a chance to read it, maybe I’ll say, I’ll take a look I mean, he’s he’s definitely different hitter than fifteen sixteen. No doubt. I mean, he he, you know, as far as strikeouts big differences there, and and just approach in general. So yeah, we’ll we’ll look. But I mean, I. I don’t know. You know, that’s one thing. Hitters can adjust in the smart hitters do adjust the good hitters do adjust. It’s not just against, you know, different pitchers as they as pitchers adjust to their approach, you know, facing bats. But it’s also to things like the shift and everything else. So so yeah, very good. We’ll be watching. Yup. So to wrap up the prediction segment top three in shifting in April for the brewers. I think that’s going to be a a very doable. One especially with the stock assigning, which we didn’t even get to mention because we just jumped right into the deep end shifting so. Yeah, that’s great in our NL central breakdown to kind of wrap up the show today. We just wanted to touch on, you know, the managers in the National League central something that I think it was Mike Shelton. Who is now the cardinals manager touched onto is everybody’s talking about universal D H. I think he had a tweet somewhere. I think it was him where he said, let’s go the other way. Let’s go no university or. Universal. No, D H. And he got a lot of a lot of applause for that. Yeah. I I like that better than universal the age. Sorry. I do. Yeah. I’m a traditionalist a little bit that way. And I get the other the other view, what do you what do you think about the concept of not h at all? Oh, no. I like that. I’ve heard that brought up to and I do think that what’s it does solve the issue of an inconsistency in rules between the leagues, you know. It’s sort of like I’ve heard that. It’s like either both American League and nationally should not have the HR. They both should have it. So Scherf you were going to go on that angle. Kazan? It’s it’s a level playing ground between the league’s. And I do like that idea. I don’t that will never happen. Fortunately, you’re going to drop twenty five million a year on a pitcher. And you want him to swing the bat. Heck, no, you know, there’s too many injury possibilities. And it’s just never going to happen. I like the way it is now. And I think we both agree. The eventuality is universally H I the longer they can put it off the better in my opinion.

01:00:04 – 01:05:03

But it’s unfortunately going to happen. So yeah, that’s anyway that was Mike Shelton. Speaking of Mike sheltie took over last year halfway through the season or so colonels were not performing well under Mike Metheny. They brought in Scholtz, and they made a nice push. So yeah, the cards did sign she’ll to a longer term deal. Now, he will be there for at least a couple of years. You have any info on the hated cardinals manager. You wanna toss in there or not really? Yeah. I mean, they wanted twenty eight hundred forty one hundred twenty eight and you know, that’s that’s pretty solid for coming in there like that. So it’s you know, I think we already talked about how the cardinals have improved in a number of different ways as far as their players and everything, you know, I kind of feel like this is another improvement. He’s he’s an interesting manager. He’s he’s new. I mean, that’s his that’s his that part of last season. That’s it as far as his managerial career at the major league level. So he’s he’s sort of fresh, you know, fresh blood out there. Yeah. And they were having some problems in the clubhouse last year at the point that Mathie was let go there was some interactions with players that didn’t look so good on the search. Office. And I would imagine we’re probably worse behind the scenes so it was a necessary move. And it showed that the cardinals had a fair amount of talent on that squad. And they were not getting the most out of it. So luckily for the cubs, and Bruce I feel like we’ve got two guys that really do take advantage of the max and maximize that talent we’ll see now over the course of a full season with a full offseason. If stilts can do that another another manager in the central. There’s two left right. We got Pittsburgh. And we got Cincinnati. Did you wanna pay on one guy or the other was going to mention speaking of of fresh blood, you know, the reds? Yes. David David bell. You know? Yeah. No, no major league experience whatsoever as a manager. So it’s gonna be interesting. He’s bene- coach. Actually, I didn’t realize he was a coach for the cubs in two thousand thirteen. I it seems kinda million. I don’t recall that specifically. But I think he was a player. I didn’t know you still out coaching and things like that. So yeah. Yeah. Well, then he coached with the cardinals for two thousand fourteen to two thousand seventeen and then. Yeah, I do remember him as a player to of course. But but yeah. No. That’s that’s another interesting thing. It’ll be you know, sometimes there’s there’s so much room for implosion on that Cincinnati team. Young. He oh, he’s I’m just saying. This could be the Cincinnati squad has. It’s going to have the potential to be the most entertaining thing in the fellow way. So much potential. Yeah. Yeah. Field met Kemp’s. A great veteran. David bell brand new manager. How are you gonna handle that personality some other guys coming over a bunch of one year contracts? This has the potential to absolutely implode on Cincinnati. Does it seems like a very it’s going to be fun to watch. Because it’s I mean, there’s just it’s bubbling with talent and stuff, but there’s just a hundred different ways. It could just completely go crazy. I don’t know. It’ll be fun. Oh for sure. And I look forward to seeing that oh dressed as a Mountie on the sidelines. Every once in a while is but. Between him and plea. They should have some interesting clubhouse stuff go. Yeah. Yeah. That’s that’s an interesting mixture of characters there. I’m that they. This should be the most entertaining squad and the central. I don’t know if they’re going to be the best or the worst or somewhere in between. But they should the most detaining. I think at times they when things click together they could be a very dominant team. But I just don’t see that mixture having any consistency so rights. Yeah. Like, I said earlier, I see them as having a potential fire sale at the all star break and then possibly come together. Nicely afterward for a nice run. But we will see that’s that’s a totally different thing. And then I guess that gets us to the veteran that’s left in the National League central Clinton hurdle managing the Pittsburgh Pirates. He’s been doing this for a longtime former Rockies manager for a number of years. I think oh to own nine very very much very very much a competitive manager.

01:05:03 – 01:07:52

They won the National League pennant in two thousand seven he’s come over the pirates and had some success and some not so much the pirates of you know, in the mid two thousand teens, I don’t even know how to say that you’ve got. What is the two thousand two thousand fifteen they had a pretty good year. Yes. You know? He’s he does have a five fifteen winning percentage record with the pirates. So okay. He is a generally one. It’s just spend some years have been pretty decent and other years. Not so good. But it’s it’s average out to just barely above five hundred. So sure, yeah, this’ll be interesting to watch how they go. I think the pitching staff has a chance to be very very good. I don’t feel like they’ve got much there for hitting and in this National League central the brewers have a heck of a lineup. The reds have a heck of a lineup. The cubs have a heck of a lineup. The cardinals have a heck of a lineup. I don’t know. I don’t know that getting by on pitching is gonna get you fire enough in this division. That’s why in my predictions. I’m still debating, but I think I might end up with Pittsburgh coming in the rear but Clint hurdle if anybody’s gonna keep this ship upright for the pirates, no pun intended there. It would be someone like him. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, he is he is technically the more experienced managers in the central. But I don’t know. I mean, I you know, if we’re going around out as far as between the reds pirates. I mentioned to you before I think the reds have a slight edge. I just think the reds have more talent. But, but yeah, they also have more potential for volatility, and like you said, there’s a implosion risk there. So. It’s going to be fun. Yeah. But cardinals suck. So is that much Mike Scheldt? Can you know, you know? I don’t wanna see. Yeah. Well. It’s yeah. Those would be some fun matchups. And. Yeah, I mean, I think that kinda round things off here for today’s episode. I do believe. So I think we’ve got a pair managers that are some of the best in baseball. And you know, what the rest of the divisions not bad either. We’ll see what David Bill doesn’t Cincinnati. But. Yeah. To wrap it up. You know, go brewers Cup. Suck cardinal suck. Go cubs. Cardinals. All right. We’ll catch you later out. Everybody by.